2.0 warlock build

[Palehorse]

Prior to 2.0 I followed the advice of a Naxx experienced warlock to go DS/Ruin, and I've used that build until now.

With the 41 pt builds, as well as some changes to existing talents, I was wondering what warlocks would recommend, keeping in mind that I only have 2 pieces of felheart and mostly zg items (+289 damage, no plagueheart for threat mitigation).

Another Naxx-experienced warlock suggested I go either 46/5/0 or 51/0/0 for Aff, saying that with DoTs and drain life I can use SB once NF procs. OR, if I was to do destro, he suggested 7/0/44.

I'm considering a modified Aff build since I'm still worried about generating threat with heavy destro, and was told that DS and/or Demo are pretty horrible for raid.

Tentative spec is
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-warlock/talents.html?3502220512231105510312050000000000000 000000000000000000000000000

[Xsalent2]

At your level of +damage, I would go for DS/SM... it used to be a terrible build, but now with the changes to drain life, you'll most likely be doing more damage than with DS/Ruin, Especially with your buffed Corruption/Siphon.

[Ayriya]

It depends on a lot of factors, including playstyle, raid compostion, and the instances you guys are running.

For example, Demonology is actually an extremely raid-viable and powerful tree IF you don't have to play imp-bitch. If you raid groups the tanks in 1 or 2 groups with a couple of imp-imp locks then you might be free to use whatever pet you wish, or sac whatever pet you wish. Demo grants a ton of flexibility and allows you to tailor yourself to specific encounters.

Now if you do have to play imp-bitch, then Demo is only good if you have your tanks out-geared and need the threat reduction your imp offers; I don't think this applies to you, as your +damage is fairly low, so aggro shouldn't be a problem. When we get to 25-man raids though, locks will mostly be relegated to imp duty so at 70, demo will be a weak raid tree with respect to that.

That said, Affliction & Destruction are now 2 very different styles of play; but they both share a couple elements too. First, both have an available 10% threat reduction, both have methods of regen, and both make use of the shadow tree. Now for the differences...

Affliction is very static, and you'll approach most encounters the same way. Gone are the days of SM-ruin Shadow Bolt spamming, deep Afflcition is a sustain build with plenty of damage available, but most raid-locks won't go more then 41-deep as the other two trees offer up both additional damage and resources valued by both you and your raid group. The real strength is Shadow Embrace, which is a 5% damage reduction for your tanks... it doesn't stack though, so a raid group only needs 1 Affliction lock with respect to that ability. Most of what you do is mantain dots, drain life, and toss shadow bolts on NF procs. You can spec pure +shadow damage and you can basically go on forever. The down sides are that you have very little synergy with other classes, you're gimped if the mobs are sahdow resistant or immune and you have very little burst for mobs without large life-pools. You also have to be very very careful with your threat... once your DoT's are up, they're up, and you can't stop them if the tanks get hit with an aggro-reduction ability or what have you; you're also going to have a lot of healing threat from Siphon Life & Drain Life, which reduces the total damage you can do without exceeding tank aggro.

Destruction is a bit more dynamic... You have a fire tree that is almost as good as your shadow (and come TBC it will be as good as shadow). You also have synergy options with not one, but 2 classes... Shadow priests will offer Shadow Weaving, and Fire Mages offer up Fire vulnerability. The locks are already throwing CoS & CoE so this helps you to reap some benefits. Burst damage is nearly mage-like as well, and you can pick up some big benefits to your AoE. Come TBC, Fire will probably take over as the primary damage tree because Incenrate is more mana-efficient then Shadow Bolt, but really, you can roll with either or even both. Threat is actually easier to control here as well; you're looking at less DoT damage, and a bigger emphasis on Direct Damage; so if you're threat is high you can simply stop casting. It also has some handy, although not ground breaking survival & sustain helpers such as Nether Protection and Soul Leech. The weaknesses are lower sustain, the risk of big crits and less "raidly" defensive utility.

Pre-patch I was MD-Ruin specced, mostly because BWL is such a threat-sensative instance (my guild is a BWL-AQ40 guild), and it helped a lot... I've also been deep-Affliction and was considering going back to MD-Ruin for a little more damage in AQ. The locks in our raid group split pretty evenly, half went deep Affliction, the other half went deep-Destruction and we still have 1 undecided (but he's out for several weeks with a hole in his hand). One of the Affliction locks tried a mid-combo of 28/2/20 and didn't like it, instead respeccing to deep affliction. Personally, I went 8/0/43 with the intent of going 15/3/43 at 70. Learning curve aside, I'm very much liking Destruction, it's a bit more mage-like, but doesn't feel mage-like at the same time if that makes sense. I also PvP a fair amount when I'm not raiding, so I made some comprimises for both areas. I have enough in Affliction though to help improve my sustain while the additional damage from destruction has put me at #1 on the DPS meters since patch despite having to play a utility role. My survivability has been excellent as well. Our Afflcition locks are speaking highly of their choices too, so really, I don't think you can go wrong with either tree as long as you play it to it's strengths and be mindful of it's weaknesses.

Anyway, I hope that helps, I cn post links to build suggestions based on how you want to play if you'd like...

[Kahrdis]

7/21/21 +2 imo is still the best to raid *IF* you can sac shit and ain't no impbitch.otherwise 30/0/21 until 64 then its gonna be something with Incinerate as 0/21/40.

[Ayriya]

7/21/21 +2 imo is still the best to raid *IF* you can sac shit and ain't no impbitch.otherwise 30/0/21 until 64 then its gonna be something with Incinerate as 0/21/40.
I would kill to see Blizz make Blood Pact a castable buff not bound to our imp... or at least not an aura but a situation where you could summon your imp, cast it on the party, then sac him or your succy or what have you and have it all be just dandy.

[Kahrdis]

yeah i was 9/21/21 for many months and really enjoy the build,until i found out that i became completely obsolete.And went back to sm/ruin.

[mko]

That is alot of useless text.
41/0/10 or 30/0/21 are the highest raid dps specs, pick whichever you prefer.
If you plan to ever drainlife over shadowbolt in pve you're stupid.

[Xi-]

Step 1: Bang face on keyboard
Step 2: Go to battlemaster
Step 3: Bang face on keyboard

YOU WIN@WARLOCK!

[Ayriya]

That is alot of useless text.
41/0/10 or 30/0/21 are the highest raid dps specs, pick whichever you prefer.
If you plan to ever drainlife over shadowbolt in pve you're stupid.

I apologize if I was too vauge; I would never suggest Drainlife over Shadow Bolt, but a 41-pt Affliction lock is only looking at 2, maybe 3 bolts per DoT refresh cycle (I was bored enough at work to work out the timing for both Destruction & Affliction builds in a spreadsheet at work). Best case scenerio is you spend as much time casting Shadow Bolts as you do DoT's; if you're taking damage or what have you then yea, there's an excellent chance you're casting Drain Life instead of Bolting... varries by encounter obviouslly.

[Caligulas]

Step 1: Set up bobbing bird
Step 2: Go to battlemaster
Step 3: Afk nap

YOU WIN@WARLOCK!

Fixed

[Merllan]

That is alot of useless text.
41/0/10 or 30/0/21 are the highest raid dps specs, pick whichever you prefer.
If you plan to ever drainlife over shadowbolt in pve you're stupid.

I'm curious on how above build offers more dps than 7/0/44?

[Lovelychobo]

another dot improved dots 10% to all shadow damage and you still get ruin

[superslice]

Step 1: Bang face on keyboard
Step 2: Go to battlemaster
Step 3: Bang face on keyboard

YOU WIN@WARLOCK!

i thought warlock was all skill?

[Kahrdis]

so did anyone try the twins tanking part with nether prot. specc'd?

Probably taking on the brat with 7/0/44.Fun time.

[Satet]

blunted = BEAST

[flexus]

41/0/10 is the best pve spec i think.. you do nice damage, dont run out of mana and make the mages happy with malediction

best pvp spec
(if you don't want to do the my-demon-is-imba-and-makes-all-the-damage-mainstream-thing) 7/0/44, lots of fun

[Kiberian]

That is alot of useless text.
41/0/10 or 30/0/21 are the highest raid dps specs, pick whichever you prefer.
If you plan to ever drainlife over shadowbolt in pve you're stupid.

Blunted's consistently in the top 5 DPS and he's 30/0/21 (I think?), so I'd listen to him. :P

[Xsalent2]

In any fight that there are multiple targets to DPS, you shouldn't ever be shadowbolting anyway. The DPS you get per casting time on dots is MUCH greater than that of a shadowbolt. If you can keep your 5 dots up on 2 mobs, you can be doing well over 1k dps in crappy gear.

[Ayriya]

best pvp spec
(if you don't want to do the my-demon-is-imba-and-makes-all-the-damage-mainstream-thing) 7/0/44, lots of fun

Actually, despite every warlock and their mother being 41-demo; they're generally getting Pwned pretty bad... They can't kill fast enough and against rogues/hunters/mages that's what you need. They can often ensure that you will die (unless you are also a lock), but they still go down first...

[Chris]

Blunted is the man. There is no more to be said about that.

[Kiberian]

Who else has the time to trade you a healthstone during a polarity change at Thaddius?

[Fuggles]

I've been trying out 5/5/41 for a bit and it doesn't seem to be too bad, got me #1 on the meters a few times (with a shadow priest). At 70 I plan on going 0/21/40.

Has anyone tried both this and SM/Ruin and found one to be superior? And what lvl 70 specs can you recommend? Thanks in advance.

[Dseed]

im sitting at 572 shadow dmg with 3 piece neme 4 piece plague heart and 3.5 shoulder
41/0/10 is owning the meter

ive tried 7/0/43 and finds shadowfury is useless and lack of incinarate loses a lot dps ON DPS BOSS FIGHTS maybe its coz the lack of crits in my gear 17% but its good for trash clearing coz the burst dmg (we tank most stuff in a bunch and shadowfury hits them all)

as for 70.im thinking
41/0/20 or 7/13(imp fel armor)/41 but then agian my lock is not in beta so i will have to look and see.

[Kahrdis]

i tested everything but felguard.not going sl.no no.

i used to top the charts with 40/0/11,7/0/44 is nice too especially in BWL or wherever you get to eat fire/shadow damage.I was able to nuke straight from 72% to 12% at firemaw,ended up with a shitload of wing buffet.6/34/11 got a lot stronger than the old sl due to DK.Now 43/8/0,gonna test it out tonight.Not too confident though.I never liked/played whithout bane/shadowburn.

update:

43/8/0:Amazing how much dps can dish out just with drains and 4 dots up all the time but still can't compete with Contagion+/Bane

[Ayriya]

I've been rolling the 7/0/44 build and it's been owning the meters; in the rare event I'm not #1, I'm #2, and I'm threat limited in both cases. It's pretty pimpy in PvP as well, I like it way better then when I was SL; although I do miss not being able to "tank" like I could then; this build is far more effective.

My plan for 70 is 17/0/44 with dual gear sets for fire & shadow. My second choice build would be 40/0/21. Both are pretty powerful though, and you should opt for the one that better suites your play-style.

[Aspe]

TLDR - Warlocks rape meters at 60, whatever the spec.

[Kahrdis]

I'm sure everyone heard of the lolnerfbat for Affliction,let's see how it looks on lvl 70.I hate to be pigeonholed,but we'll see.

[Laupstad]

Step 1: Bang face on keyboard
Step 2: Go to battlemaster
Step 3: Bang face on keyboard

YOU WIN@WARLOCK!
Who cares about PvP? :-/

Anyway, i figured i'd go heavy Affliction in TBC, but i'm still not sure if i'm gonna go for imp. Healthstones/imp. Imp or go for Bane with the shorter cast times on SB. Without Ruin i might as well Drain Life and let NF procs handle the SB nuking. Makes me alot "cheaper" to bring to a raid as well considering no healers waste their mana on keeping my DPS on par.

As far as i can see there is still little hope for us to get more than 2 spots in a raid, mostly based on dps vs. other classes (Hybrids even) so why not bring -5% damage, Malediction for the mages, improved Bloodpact for the tank, and Improved Healthstones for everyone (Gief bigger shard bags!). Atleast i'll be viable in a raid. Time will show though, it all depends on how things will turn out in TBC and if we're back to doing pre-2.0 damage again (Compared to mages/rogues) or if we keep our current dps. With the current number of possible debuffs we can give a target, we might even live up to our main role as debuffers and not just /follow [MT] and a macro with /assist [Mage] /cast coe.

And concerning the nerf on Affliction, it's mainly a PvP as far as i can see. It affects damage curses (CoA and CoD) wich are never/rarely used in PvE anyway, and Corruption. Corruption might sting, but very few of us know how much this will affect raid damage. Big and clearly necessary nerf for PvP though.

[Kahrdis]

Who cares about PvP? :-/

Anyway, i figured i'd go heavy Affliction in TBC, but i'm still not sure if i'm gonna go for imp. Healthstones/imp. Imp or go for Bane with the shorter cast times on SB. Without Ruin i might as well Drain Life and let NF procs handle the SB nuking. Makes me alot "cheaper" to bring to a raid as well considering no healers waste their mana on keeping my DPS on par.

As far as i can see there is still little hope for us to get more than 2 spots in a raid, mostly based on dps vs. other classes (Hybrids even) so why not bring -5% damage, Malediction for the mages, improved Bloodpact for the tank, and Improved Healthstones for everyone (Gief bigger shard bags!). Atleast i'll be viable in a raid. Time will show though, it all depends on how things will turn out in TBC and if we're back to doing pre-2.0 damage again (Compared to mages/rogues) or if we keep our current dps. With the current number of possible debuffs we can give a target, we might even live up to our main role as debuffers and not just /follow [MT] and a macro with /assist [Mage] /cast coe.

And concerning the nerf on Affliction, it's mainly a PvP as far as i can see. It affects damage curses (CoA and CoD) wich are never/rarely used in PvE anyway, and Corruption. Corruption might sting, but very few of us know how much this will affect raid damage. Big and clearly necessary nerf for PvP though.

bane all the way.fuck healthstones and imp. imp.let the others waste der points on that crap.

Malediction oh well...i wont take it unless some raid situation requires it,which i dont believe.Oh and any halfassed raidleader will give us 3+ spots.Imo you bring 2+ or 1.1 is enough for CoE and healthstones,summons.if you have not many shadowpriests and locks in your raid why bring one to bother wit CoS?My opinion though


BTW i hate DK.DK got us the affliction nerf.i'm pretty damn sure of it!

[mko]

With current lvl 70 talents a warlock has the highest theoretical DPS possible out of all casters, only slightly behind a rogue. If you're not planning on running with 3 minimum (for coe/cos/cor and most likely being the top dps in the raid) your raid leader must not be very bright.

[Laupstad]

bane all the way.fuck healthstones and imp. imp.let the others waste der points on that crap.

Malediction oh well...i wont take it unless some raid situation requires it,which i dont believe.Oh and any halfassed raidleader will give us 3+ spots.Imo you bring 2+ or 1.1 is enough for CoE and healthstones,summons.if you have not many shadowpriests and locks in your raid why bring one to bother wit CoS?My opinion though


BTW i hate DK.DK got us the affliction nerf.i'm pretty damn sure of it!
The thing is that shadowpriests suddenly became a decent raid member with their new and improved talents. With both mana regen and healing based on damage stacking with damage gear, i'd say they'll be prefered over warlocks as it is now and therefore requires two locks. Three locks for CoR would be even better, but with that many locks and loads of new shadow priests even the new debuff slots will get pretty close to full.

I do agree that for my own love of high numbers sake i should spec all the way to Ruin in Destruction, but if we're back to the same damage as we had before, i'd rather gimp my own damage slightly and boost the overall raid performance more instead of being left on the reserve list because someone else is willing to make that sacrifice. I play my warlock to raid end-game, and only that. If that is a spec i have to use to make sure that happends, i have no problems with that. Got several alts i can spec whatever i want on.

And about that theorycrafting of warlocks having the highest theoretical DPS: Does that include the upcoming DoT nerf? And what spec is this based on?

[Kahrdis]

yeah i hear ya,about the same here.I didnt theorycraft about anything,but i think mko didnt count in the 10%-15% dotnerf that has come live today.

[Kaizo]

Hmm, is anyone consistently or usually on top on sustained dps fights atm?

[Chris]

Blunted. Who happens to be the man, last time I checked.

[Kaizo]

Blunted, will you sign my tabard?

[Kahrdis]

Hmm, is anyone consistently or usually on top on sustained dps fights atm?
i didnt raid since 2.0.3 was out.but ever since the patch its whether me or the other deep affliction lock on top.

btw we just run BWL and aq40 serkam-huhu incl. viscidus now.Had too many ppl leave/quit/pause after our first anub kill 3 months ago.

So yeah i top dps.but i top dps on www.monthsbehind.com , duh

[Vinkol]

That is alot of useless text.
41/0/10 or 30/0/21 are the highest raid dps specs, pick whichever you prefer.
If you plan to ever drainlife over shadowbolt in pve you're stupid.
Liek zomg my casting time is increased by 70% aaah

[Chris1987]

I got a way too nice lock spec. doesnt make huge agro unless you wanna, but it does huge damage and if you know how to play your class, you can control your agro stage easily.


http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IA0riRfzVxbZfxzzIbz


40/21/0..... I've had this built for quite some time :) its an amazing built, for both huge damage and for raiding, since you get Imp HS, imp imp.